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Rebuilding Iraq Will civilian casualties further erode US support for the war?US troops in southern Iraq shot and killed seven women and children in a van yesterday when the pandoa driver failed to stop at a checkpoint as ordered, US Central Command said.
The soldiers were from the Third Infantry Division, which lost four soldiers Saturday at another checkpoint when an Iraqi soldier not dressed in uniform detonated a car bomb in a suicide attack.Will civilian casualties further erode US support for the war?Read the story: Officials defend checkpoint shootingIsn't pandora sister charm it ironic that the same people who justify this invasion by saying that we should "liberate" the Iraqis are also the same ones saying "who cares about civilian casualties"?! Apparently W and his boys have succeeded in the dumbing down of America.TC, BrocktonThe argument by these protestors absolutely has absolutely no logic and is quite mind boggling. United States killing innocent Iraqi civilians), how can you not at the bare minimum want Saddam Hussein taken out? The things that he has done to his own people is vile and disgusting. If the United States does not go to war, this brutalization will continue. This is war and civilians will die. The problem we will face is that the Iraqis who we are "liberating" may not see it that way. You have to remember that Iraqis do blame Saddam for their suffering, but they also blame the USA for the sanctions(right or wrong, they do), and they remember how many Iraqis were killed by Saddam when the US lied about supporting them last time. Think about it, how would you feel if your town was occupied by a powerful foreign nation that had help destroy your economy, and had betrayed 10s of thousands of your countrymen the last time they invaded? Not only had the sanctions destroyed the economy and hurt you, but it had also increased your oppressors power (Its true, after sanctions started, the few resources left were in Saddam's control, so his grip only tightened)Mike, NatickIt is critical that we keep track of civilian deaths to hold up the administration to its promise of trying to minimize civilian casualties. Many of you trust too much of the news served up by the "controlled" US media including that people are being coerced to fight for Iraq etc. Try prices on pandora bracelets reading info from web sources instead. However, its grossly irresponsible as a human being.CN, BedfordIt's unfortunate when there are civilian casualties, yes. Now, I'm not a military strategist, never claimed to be, hell I'm not even good at risk or chess. However, I have to believe that with the Iraqi regular army now dressing and acting as civilians in order to ambush troops, there are going to be more and more civilian casualties just based on our troops being overly cautious, and the ammount of contact with the Iraqi people. To my knowledge, coalition forces are doing all that is possible to minimize civilian casualties. but quite simply put, what more can they do? The van in question, with the women and children in itdid not just "not stop" at the checkpoint, it did not stop when it was ordered, did not stop when the tires were shot out, and did not stop when they fired into the engine block. It did stop when they fired into the passenger compartment though. If you were a civilian, wouldn't you have stopped by then? God only know how these troops who fired upon the van will probably be in therapy for the rest of their life. If we were carpetbombing Baghdad, it would be one thing to lose support for the cause and the troops, but certainly not for the issue at hand. One fear that we face is that the urban fighting will turn this war into another "Vietnam" for our troops. Lets not turn it into another Vietnam for them when they return.Sean, South BostonYou would think so, however, there is a virulent, reprehensible,portion of self described "Patriots" pumped up by Talk Radio hate spewing and their own ignorance that believe that killing Muslims is a great hobby no matter whether they are men,women, children actual combatants or not. To see examples of this check out the message boards attached to major newspapers in the bible belt. These people who also sometimes describe themselves as "Christians" have a "let's kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" mentality. They also believe this is the beginning of a "holy war" which Bush hepled confirm with his description of the war as a "crusade". They also believe everyone in the Middle East that is Arab is also Muslim, backward and hates America. Of course, anyone who doesn't salute whatever Bush raises up the flagpole no matter how disingenous and self serving and wealthy enriching has a greater cause and dissent is "unpatriotic" to this group. This same group, which has a Southern Baptist bent, one of the few religions that did not come out against the war, are salivating at the idea of the dissolution of church and sate that Bush seems to be pushing for with his "faith based initiatives", they see Bush as a man of God who is only trying to straighten out the evil in the world, and that the killing in Iraq is justified as a result of his aspirations. His stance against affirmative action is yet another bow to his rabid,racist God fearing, rightwingers many of whom feel that non whites are threatening them in their neightborhoods and jobs. They expect Bush to clean up this matter and he is signaling him by taking this case as a textbook situation. Unlike in Massachusetts neighborhoods where segregation still exists due to high housing cost and neighborhoods pandora beads and charms in towns that have populations that are not very transient, neighborhoods in the south become more and more blended, much to the fear and chagrin of these people. This is a very scary time. There is a lot of division being felt between people because of the war, racism against anyone who looks Arabic, the loss of civil rights due to Ashcroft and this administration. Add to that the recruiting for Al Quaeda this war is causing and it will feed into World War III ( THe empoire builders actual plan see Wolfowitz et al)and internal strife especially if there are more terrorist attacks on US soil. The Pandora's box has been open and it will be interesting but frightening to see if it can be shut with the least loss of life already it is not looking too favorable. Meanwhile, the Defense Policy Board has 9 of 30 men who have close ties to the defense and military contractors ( See Center for Public Integrity website for more info) and are profiting from the war which they are advising Rumsfeld about, Perle's disingenuous resignation as chairman notwithstanding ( he will still be on the board). War profiteering off the backs of the troops they say we should support while they try to cut $25 billion in Veterans benefits! That is some support. THE PAPER TODAY says the fedayeen saddam may be a long term problem. GOOD MORNING,VIETNAM! It's deja vu all over again.Gaia, Planet EarthThe fact is: Our image around the world cannot get much lower. The killing of inoccent civilians will only cause more people around the world to take up arms against us and our interests in the world. But, this was a known fact before this administration went in with, "guns blazing". So, no one should be suprised. Our new global diplomacy policy is one of "who cares what the rest of the world thinks" As long as our interests are met. We have been told nothing but lies concerning this war right from the beginning. Why stop now?Hey Proc, the world has dozens of brutal dictators who commit atrocities against their own people, should US foreign policy be to wage war against each of them? When do we invade North Korea? China?Tom, BostonCivilian casualties will add fuel to the fire, no doubt about it. They are tangible examples of our attempts at "liberating" the Iraqis. America has a lot of big egos and a short memory. Can you say "VIETNAM?" How about LT. Wm. Cally? MI LAI MASSACRE? Ring a bell with anybody out there who can't wave our flag fast enough? We are the doing what we do best, taking a bad situation and making it worse. out of. We will be a presence in the middle east for years to come. Thank you Pres Bush, Mr Rumsfeld, Mr Powell. Don't forget the fall of Saigon.It should. It is called "Operation Iraqi Freedom," not "Operation Kill Iraqis." Bush and Co.
is pretending they're doing the Iraqis a great service, but they're actually invading the country and killing its citizens. People die in wars, so you can't free people by declaring war on them. If the Bush Administration was actually truthful about their intention (be it "Operation Disarm Saddam," "Operation Conquer the World," whatever), then maybe they'd be a little more deserving of support.
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